Classic | Leadership with John Bates

How do I learn to communicate more effectively? Why is communication so important in business? What is my origin story?  We have an incredible conversation with John Bates, a world-renowned Leadership Communication expert, and trainer.  John helps great leaders change the world and is one of the most prolific and successful TED/TEDx-format speaker coaches in the world.  John has worked with and coached leaders at some of the largest organizations in the world including NASA astronauts, and U.S. Naval Special Operations.

Connect with and Follow John Bates here:
Website: https://executivespeakingsuccess.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ExecutiveSpeakingSuccess
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbates/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ExecSpeakingSuccess
Speak Like a Leader Podcast: https://speaklikealeader.show/

Resources from John Bates:
Speak Like a Leader Experience - Begins January 19th, 2022
Free TEDx Tips Course
Free Mini-Trainings (Sunday Emails)
Speak Like a Leader: FREE Digital Course Preview
Speak Like a Leader Bootcamp Self Paced Course

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www.itsjustbusinesspodcast.com

You can find Russ @reliable.remediation
Russ Harlow – Reliable Remediation – Disaster Restoration
Google: https://g.page/r/CXogeisZHEjMEBA

You can find Dana @adashofboss, @dana.dowdell and @hrfanatic
 Dana Dowdell – Boss Consulting – HR Consulting
Google -  https://tinyurl.com/y4wxnavx

Transcript

 Dana Dowdell  00:00

Hey y'all. As we wrap up 2022 Russ, I wanted to reshare one of our most listened to episodes of the year. So, for this week's episode, we are resharing, episode number 60, which is speak like a leader with John Bates. So, we hope that you enjoy a second listen, and we'll catch you next week.

Dana Dowdell  00:31

I'm Dana, 

Russ Harlow  00:31

and this is Russ, 

Dana Dowdell  00:32

and you're listening to Its Just Business. 

Russ Harlow  00:35

We're a couple of small business owners who are trying to figure it out as we go. And as we grow our businesses, we want to help you grow yours. If we've learned anything, it's not personal. It's Just Business. 

Dana Dowdell  00:47

Hi, Russ. 

Russ Harlow  00:48

What's happening? 

Dana Dowdell  00:48

How are ya doing? 

Russ Harlow  00:49

Very well. Good. So, we are going to jump right in because I'm really excited about our guests today. I know they say that a lot. But we've been having some really great guests on, and this is one that's kind of been through several relationships from past guests. If you remember Dr. Sabrina from Episode 33, and Christine era, who was just on recently in Episode 56. Both know John and John Bates is with us today. He is an executive speaking coach. He has been on the TED X circuit done like 50 or 15 or 20 different presentations, Ted Talks, God, he works with executives with some larger companies like Johnson and Johnson, NASA, even the astronauts, US Navy Special Ops. And I think we have a lot to gain from what John's message is. So, John Bates, welcome to It's Just Business. 

John Bates  01:43

Well, thank you very much for us and Danna, I really appreciate being here. I feel to join you guys. I mean, you know, you come highly recommended by some of the people in my world that I rec that I respect the most. So, I'm excited to be with you. 

Dana Dowdell  01:57

I feel like I'm talking to a business celebrity a little bit.

John Bates  02:02

You meet Russ. 

Dana Dowdell  02:04

Oh, God, definitely not definitely.

John Bates  02:09

Thank you, Dana. It feels so good to say that I the experience of being inside oneself is different than being outside oneself. Right. So, I'll take it and I appreciate it. I am yeah, I think we sometimes forget just how cool and accomplished we actually are. And you seem pretty cool and pretty accomplished. So, thank you. 

Russ Harlow  02:30

You've been through some stuff. Isn't that right, John?

John Bates  02:34

I have been through some stuff. 

Russ Harlow  02:35

Can you bring us a little bit kind of your journey to where you are today and kind of the Cliff's Notes? Because I know it's not a short story. 

John Bates  02:42

Yeah, so I'll tell you the quick version. You know, somebody like I was on a podcast with a really young, really just excitable in a great way, young guy. And he was like, you know, wait a minute, wait a minute, you do leadership communications training, and you work with the astronauts, and you work with Navy Special Ops? Like how did and it was so funny how he asked her, I said, how did you get that job?

John Bates  03:11

And I really thought about it for a second because I really wanted too just be straight up. And I said, you know,

John Bates  03:18

I just failed at everything else I did. And there's some truth to that, you know, I was in the woods for a long time, I was 50 grand in debt for most of my life with millions of dollars of useless stock options that I was working so hard to get that never turned in anything. I've raised several 100 million dollars in Silicon Valley and beyond with my different teams never had a successful exit. But I think all that time in the woods and all that failure and just being just a Hi, is this ever gonna work? Am I ever gonna get anywhere. I think that's what allows me to do what I do now, with the amount of compassion and insight that I can bring because of all that stuff. And so, a real short, quick version is that I was always the guy who had the soft skills. I was always an early-stage employee starting in 1990 four@different.com companies. I was an early-stage employee, a founder, a co-founder, as I said, raised several 100 million dollars with my teams. I was always the chief evangelist for the different companies that I worked with and was always jealous of the people with the hard skills because they got paid more. They seem more important. They seem better than I was. So, I go around trying to prove I was valuable while I felt like I wasn't as valuable, and it was just awkward. And then in 2009 I went to the TED conference, so I owe Ted an enormous debt of gratitude because it changed my life. at TED, I saw person after person get on stage and give the most unbelievable talks I've ever seen in my life. And to my credit, the first thing I thought was wow, I have been a public speaker my whole life basically

John Bates  05:00

But I've never done that. So, I came home got super involved in the TED and TEDx community. And after totally, you know, blowing my first TED talk, I realized that there was just way more to it than I then I had thought of, and I started to think about it really hard. And I was volunteering at one of the early TEDx events to UC Santa Monica, all volunteer effort, my friends were putting it on. And I was volunteering. We had this guy, that day, who had all the hard skills in the world had the most interesting topic for me of the day, the one I was waiting for the most. And when he got up on stage started to speak.

John Bates  05:39

Everybody in the audience checked out because he was so nervous and awkward, we all thought we were going to throw up. So, at first, I was terribly sad, because I'd seen that so much in so many of my colleagues and throughout my career, people who had so much to offer but just couldn't quite communicated. And then the evil part of me kicked in. And I remember sitting there going, ah, hard skills, guys blowing it, you know, like, calls what I do fluffy, and, of course, quietly to myself. And my buddy, Mike came over. I've got some mics in my life. Mike came over, and he leaned down, and he said, Dude, we gotta do something to help people like this. And I remember just like, the clouds parted, and the angels sang, and like, the colors got brighter. And I was like, whoa, why didn't I ever think of that before. And I remember, just, I mean, it changed my life. And I went home that night. And I started working on what I now get to deliver all over the world. And the thing I did differently, because of that moment, is I realized I would need if I really wanted to make an impact, I would need to base everything I did in human evolutionary biology, human neurophysiology the science of communication, so that I could show people not only what works when it comes to influencing and, and motivating and, and connecting with uninspiring human beings, but also why it works based in science, because there's so much counter intuitive stuff going on. And there's so much poorly modeled stuff that we see, especially in the world of business. So that's what I did.

John Bates  07:23

And oh, boy, I mean, just because I know that this is entrepreneurs that are listening, I'll tell you what happened. The first year, I went even further in debt, it was freaking terrifying. The next year, I kind of broke even the third year, I made more than I ever made in my life by a notable amount, then I doubled that plus, then I tripled that plus that you're right. And so, it that turns out to have been a really good thing to do.

John Bates  07:51

And just to cap it off, I think that that was my insight into why it is so important to do something that you love, like you got to do something you love that's valuable for other people. But if you're not doing something you love, I think it's hard to do it long enough to succeed.

Russ Harlow  08:12

I think that's a pretty good statement. I mean, sometimes you got to do something that you just don't hate, but there's got to be something in it, that you do enjoy, there's got to be some value add for you. You know, I mean, you don't have to love every aspect of it. You know, what I think is interesting, too, for those listening is understanding that this is those, those the clickbait things that you see about hacking this hacking that this is to hacking your brain hacking your mindset, using that neurobiology, like you're seeing and understanding the science behind the communication?

Russ Harlow  08:43

How important is that, from your perspective, as a small business owner, I mean, I've raised 10s of 1000s of dollars for business and it was all mine, I dumped my entire life savings into it. Right? So how does it help me in communicating with, you know, with my customers with my team with, you know, where's the value add for that when I get better at that?

John Bates  09:05

Well, you know, it's the difference between closing deals and not closing deals like fundamentally it just and it's this sort of secret hidden aspect of communication that nobody's thinking about that actually has you close those deals now look, people can close deals I get it, but what if you could close deals at 5% greater rate 10% greater rate 50% greater rate because you knew what was going on neuro biologically when it comes to having people connect with you feel trust for you want to work with you feel connected to you like that? is all about communication.

Russ Harlow  09:54

What helps us to is this just a learning process is this it's not a sales technique. I'll give you an example. I had somebody call me the other day, and anybody who's been in sales recognizes this one, right? He's got a list in front of them. And he was calling franchisees. And he goes, oh, Steve Barrett up in Massachusetts said he was doing a lot of these installs. And he thought you might be interested in here and I go, this guy just put me into sales. 101 class, I'm like, Alright, guy. Go ahead, finish your spiel. So, you don't have to call me back. But this is not what we're talking about. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, this is yeah.

John Bates  10:31

And, you know, I'll say, I'll say two things about it. First thing is? Well, let me just give you a piece of neurobiology. Okay, some free fish here. So, you know, and I promise anybody listening to this that takes it on, it will absolutely, fundamentally, utterly transform your results. And, you know, when you're making millions, come hire me, and let's work together, you know. But here's the number one piece of neurobiology that I think people don't understand. It's the brain. And here's what I mean by that. If you look at a cross section of the human brain, you see the brainstem and the midbrain. And together, they form the Paleo mammalian brain, or the limbic system, or the emotional brain, that's the ancient part of the brain, then wrapped around that is the new part of the brain, the neocortex. And here's the thing, the ancient brain doesn't have access to language or logic or reason, all that lives in the neural the new brain, the neocortex, the cerebral cortex. But the ancient brain does have access to reality, on a fundamentally different level than we have access ever consciously, we do not have access to reality, consciously the way that our ancient brain has access to reality. And here's what I mean by that, because it sounds weird. Here's what I mean. Our ancient brain is the part of our brain that perceives things like

John Bates  12:01

pheromones, facial micro expressions, body language that's totally unconsciously sent and received, it notices patterns in things that the conscious brain will never notice. It's perceiving reality, on a very deep level, but it doesn't have access to language, so it can't tell us about it. So, the way that our ancient brain communicates with us is to gut feelings. So, lesson number one, trust your gut. If your mom didn't tell you, I'm telling you now, if the elevator door opens, and the hair stands up on the back of your neck, do not get in there. Because if it was a nice person, they'd want you to trust your gut. And if it's not a nice person, you don't want to be in there anyway. Right? So that's part one. But now here's the thing. We all think we're logical, right? Oh, I'm, John, I weigh things out, I checked the boxes, I make logical decisions, you know, I'm not just this emotional, you know, I know. Well, okay, that's, that may be true, you may check the boxes, you may think about it logically. But when it comes to actually making the choice, if we put any of you in an FMRI machine, and we watched your brain in real time, as you made that choice, we would see boom, the Paleo mammalian ancient brain fires first making the decision. And then right after that the cerebral cortex, the logical part of the brain fires agreeing with or disagreeing with, but not making the decision. And here's how that comes down to your life, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, as somebody who wants employees to stick around as somebody who wants to close business deals, any of that stuff with human beings.

John Bates  13:38

Tell me if you've had an experience like this, do you like the product? Oh, yeah, we like the product. Do you think it's priced? Right? Oh, yes, certainly. Yes. Do you think it would make a difference for you? Oh, yes, certainly. Well, do you want to sign the check, and we'll start delivery? Oh, no, we're not ready yet. I want to think about a little while longer. One of the most frustrating experiences in the world, right? Yes, yes. Yes. No. Were they lying to me? Like what's going on? Here's what's going on. And we're gonna tie this all back together? Yes, yes. Yes. No. Can I watch this? Logic, logic, logic and emotion? We did not make the emotional connection that would allow them to give us what I call the fourth and most important, yes.

John Bates  14:23

Yes, yes, yes, logic, the logical brain was all in. But look at the physiology of it. The logical brain is wrapped around the outside of the emotional brain. So, it has to go through the emotional brain, the ancient brain, that's the feeling brain to get to the spinal column to have any kind of action happen. Right? So, if the emotional brain says no, we get Yes, yes, yes, no, logic is all in, but the emotional brain didn't make a connection. Right. So, to understand that, until you have an emotional connection, all the logic in the world

John Bates  15:00

All just bounces off. And I know there's a bunch of people out there going, Oh, whoa, yeah. Right. Because I mean, I remember that's what I did when I learned this. I was like, oh, that's what was happening. Right? And if you take the time to get good at understanding how to make those emotional connections and how to make them early, so that all this stuff you say afterwards matters. Boy, that 5% 10% 50%, maybe 100 200% more closed deals. Oh, there's a lot to unpack here. That was a long rant.

Russ Harlow  15:43

But then you go, because is that the same thing is when people refer to their lizard brain? Is that the same kind of thing that you're talking about? The ancient brain? 

John Bates  15:50

You know, I think that people there, like the lizard brain thing, I get it, but really, it's the Paleo mammalian brain. And, and there, it's called that because all mammals have that brain structure, right? And there's a lot if you want to go deep into the neuroscience, there's all kinds of things to talk about, and argue about the three-part brain, it's like, well, that's not ultra-sophisticated. But look, it works. Right. And, and so I think that the, I think that when people are talking about the lizard brain, they're probably referring more just almost to the brainstem, where all the autonomous functions are, and like, it's not thought out at all, much instinct reaction, that kind of stuff. Yeah. And then there's, then there's that midbrain, with that. And that makes up the Paleo mammalian brain. And so, there's a lot of emotion in that brain. And there's a lot of intelligence in that brain, it's just not logical, doesn't have access to language doesn't have access to reason, like we do in our cerebral cortex, right. So, it's maybe more sophisticated than just the pure lizard part of the brain. But I think that's kind of what people think they mean, when they say that, okay.

Dana Dowdell  17:04

I'm gonna bring gender into this, because Russ and I started this podcast entirely on the fact that we look, we have this really great conversation about how women and men look at business differently. And for me, it's much, you know, I'm able to recognize the emotion and I think for many men in business, it's not as easy. And so how do we work? So, it's a two-part question. So how do we work through this? And then also being emotional? And being able to recognize emotions, I think requires a bit of vulnerability, which is often thought of a bit as a big no, no, in business, like you have to be, you know, stoic and strong. And, you know, there's all these assumptions about it. So how do we combat those kind of natural biases, natural tendencies, natural assumptions, that emotion doesn't have a place in business? 

John Bates  17:58

Well, so Dana, let me just start by saying, it takes courage, fundamentally, bottom line, and here's a few things I work with, I work, I think, with a disproportionate amount of really high-power women in business and entrepreneurs and changemakers in the world. And I tell them all the time, you have a superpower. Because in the bell curve of how we socialize, women, women are just way more tuned into emotions. Right? That so in general, and that bell curve, right, and that is an enormous superpower, but it gets painted as a liability.

John Bates  18:44

Number one, I think, because men or art don't have it as much, and they're still kind of the ones in charge. And number two, like it's just scary, because it does require some vulnerability, right? And so, number one, women, just know that your ability to understand your emotional intelligence is not a liability, and you stop letting anybody tell you that it is and if somebody shames you for bringing motion to work, you just stand, give them just let them know, this is I want my life to be meaningful and fulfilling and I'm gonna bring my whole self to work, buddy. Right. And you use that emotional ability that you have, right? And men need to understand that what men and women everybody in business I think needs to understand that what's been modeled for us is not what works best. And usually it's about 180 degrees, the opposite of what works best. You know, if you think back to a leader that really had an A, you can find plenty of leaders that didn't want to bring a motion to work and like how

John Bates  20:00

out the walls and stuff. They're not the people you remember, they're not the people you want to work for. And they're not the ones that you that made you stick around through tough times, the ones that you did that for, somehow manage to share themselves and make those emotional connections and be vulnerable. And here's a big key. Here's a big key. Why people avoid this so much is because they've seen so many people do it badly. They've seen people share kind of overshare. They've seen people do it just to manipulate, right? It's not authentic. Okay, that's not what I'm talking about. If it's not authentic, and it's not genuine vulnerability, then it's not going to work. And here's the thing. People always say, well, if I'm going to be vulnerable, like, I don't, I don't want to share too much. And I don't want to overshare Okay, here's the term and I'm teaming this, I think it's gonna be my next book, potentially

John Bates  21:00

insightful vulnerability, not just vulnerability for vulnerabilities sake, not just a Wine Fest, but some sort of vulnerability that comes with the lesson you learned from it. Now, if you don't have the insight, maybe it's too early for that particular story. But once you've processed it enough, that you have a valuable insight, talking about the place where you screwed up, and what you learned, that becomes incredibly valuable to people and makes us very strong emotional connection. And that's what I call influence versus manipulation. Influence is authentic, it's genuine. And manipulation is when people are doing that stuff, but to be manipulative. Man, I just came to mind, I could totally recognize managers who used to do that to be manipulative. And but correct me if I'm wrong to and from, you know, just being a man, myself understanding that you can be vulnerable without exposing yourself to a lot of hurt, like you can let people in to your just yourself without being completely wide open. This is my entire life. And you can Yeah, you know, have, you know, a field day with it. I mean, they're well, and you know, here's the thing, it just takes a little more thought and a little more rigor, and it takes a willingness to be aware of your own boundaries, and other people's boundaries, like, it's really easy to just go out to 200 yards and build a huge brick wall. But that's not a fulfilling life. That doesn't help anybody, that's not what I want to wake up and do for the majority of my waking hours, right? To let people in, and to share some vulnerability and to share some emotional connection. And then listen, people or people, right, somebody may try to kind of take advantage of that, and you got to be willing to not let them. Right. And it doesn't mean that, that having an emotionally fulfilling connected life is the wrong choice. It just means that if anybody tries to take advantage of that, you just got to be strong enough to shut them down, and not let them. That's okay. 

Dana Dowdell  23:16

What would you for someone who really, you know, believes in the power of this and really wants to be the level of you know, communicator that can be of so much value? What, what can they do if they're in an organization where the rest of the organization is not functioning to that level? And they feel like an outlier? Or even within their own organization? You know, they can't get everyone on board in terms of that level of vulnerability. How do you respond in those situations?

John Bates  23:53

 I mean, my, my, my feeling on that is, is that there are a number of things that as a leader, I think you need to be willing to do longer than is comfortable to show people that you mean it. Right. And I just think you having the courage to show up day after day after day, modeling something that's fulfilling and moving and connected, and that works.

John Bates  24:26

People will come around, you know, and peep and look, people always are, a lot of people are gonna push back on that because they have a little bit of cynicism, a little bit of resignation, right? And they're gonna push back to make sure you're serious and they might push back two or three times, but I've found that if I can just show up and talk to them like they're great. One more time than they can stand for their own smallness. All of a sudden, we get a breakthrough, and they step into their greatness, and they never forget that I saw it before they did. I, that's how I've created forever fans. Right? And it's, I think that really, it's just, you know, having the courage to keep coming back and modeling it and modeling it and modeling and not making people wrong. Understanding that it's probably mostly just fear.

John Bates  25:26

I mean, look, it's scary to be a public speaker or to be a leader, like, that's one of the top fears, right, like people would rather swim with sharks than stand on stage. Well, look, that makes sense. It's dangerous to get noticed by the group. Look what happened to Jesus, Joan of Arc, and Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy and Socrates. Right. Okay, does it matter enough to you that you're willing to stand up and get noticed? And just stand for that over and over and over. I think it probably does. And when you do that, you have it sooner or later, they come around.

Russ Harlow  26:00

So how do we continue? And I think this goes into leads into a conversation about culture as well, you know, how can we communicate this with our teams and build meaningful relationships with them, to be able to share a vulnerability to give them that? I don't know. It builds esprit de corps, it builds a connection to us and our business. And then that translates into our customers, because really, our employees have to be first. Our team members have to be number one, because they are our business. So how do we how do we cultivate that and really build it? 

Dana Dowdell  26:31

Thanks, Russ for that HR plug.

John Bates  26:35

Well, you know, listen, I agree with you, I think that culture, eats strategy for lunch, 24/7, you know, the 25, eight, even I just think culture is the key. And I think that culture, I've because I've been thinking about that exact thing. On my podcast, I interviewed the guy who coined the term company culture. And I've been thinking about it a lot. And I really think that culture comes down to how you communicate and what you communicate about how else does culture get passed, right? I mean, some of it watching you in action, but all of that has to do with you communicating. And I think that I've missed have just started to do this. And I think I might start working this into something. But I think of the stories, your stories as a leader, and the stories of the company that you choose to tell and retell and keep in existence. That's like the mythology of your company. And the mythology is what creates and supports the culture. Now, here's a thought that I had a little while ago, I'd love to know what you think about it. But I realized that as a leader, if you cannot communicate your stories, which are, which is another way of saying, share your experiences, if you can't share your experiences and tell your stories in a really compelling, meaningful way that lands important points and principles and values over there with your employees, then your experience is of exceedingly limited value, your experience only makes a difference for you. But when you can tell those powerful stories that land the points and inspire people and transmit your values and your principles, your experience becomes dramatically leveraged. Right. And that goes further than company culture. Same thing with your clients with your potential partners with investor I anybody, right? Kids? Spouses, right.

Dana Dowdell  28:55

I always think about that, like, under explaining people, to people, the why, you know, like, why, yeah, you know, why do you do something a certain way? Or why does a company have this specific policy or procedure or, you know, not just and I think that's the difference between, like, when you see those images of managers, this is what a manager looks like, this is what a leader looks like. And managers are very transactional leaders are really just a totally different thing. But, you know, when you're not telling somebody the why you're being a manager, when you're telling somebody the why and helping them understand you're being the leader.

John Bates  29:37

 It has to do in my book, exactly what you said it has, I think of it, because I do a lot of work with the military, and I grew up in the Marine Corps. I never enlisted but my dad was like the great Santini and I love veterans. I love working with the military. Commander's Intent if we all understand and the bigger vision for what we're trying to accomplish, then maybe it doesn't make sense to die on that hill, if we could just go around, it and circle it and then capture it later. Right? If the bigger picture is something else, and people don't understand the bigger picture, that's why telling people though, why of things, is so powerful, because now you've pushed that you've empowered people all the way out to the edge of the organization, with a deeper understanding what's going on in their smart, they can make the right decision, you know, Home Depot gave people money that they could give to customers, you know, like, they give them the ability to like, just to make things right, they could just say, Listen, let me get this for you, or let you know, whatever, they were really worried that they were going to abuse that and do that for their friends and whatever. Now they didn't hardly at all people are, you know, if you give them that autonomy, and that understanding, you can have brilliant decisions made at the absolute edge of your organization, and things are gonna go way better. And here's a great saying, from a guy named Les Brown, never tell a story without a point. And never make a point without a story. So, when you're telling somebody to do something, you need to tell them the story that's going to explain the point of why they would do that something. And if you take the time to do that, once, Phil never forgets it, because we remember stories, like that's how we do stuff.

Russ Harlow  31:37

It's so huge. I mean, we do that all the time, I think about even in BNI when we talk about how to sell our businesses and our referral partners. Tell a story because it's easier to remember that you Oh, yeah. Well, I, you know, I can refer Dana because I remember this story. She told me how she helped another customer. 

John Bates  31:54

Yeah, 

Russ Harlow  31:54

if she lists all the things that she does, I'm not going to remember those now. Yeah, so the story definitely has power. How does that then transfer over? How do we communicate to that our to our customers, you know, how do we without getting up on a soapbox? Is this part of our marketing? Do we, you know, how do we turn this into an elevator pitch, you know, where we can really contain a lot of meat without making it seem too canned? 

John Bates  32:21

Well, you know, I, I, one of the things that I work on a lot. And I'll tell people how they can get this, and you can put it in the show notes if you want. But I work. I work with people a lot in that setting. And the first most important thing that I think anybody could do, particularly the leader of a company, but anybody anywhere in the hierarchy of the company, could do this and dramatically improve their results in their own life. I think it's a not it's just non optional for the real leaders, the ones who are in that position, hierarchically as well, to create what I call your superhero origin story. And for and a lot of people have it, like they tell a story about how they started the business. But not many people have thought about it down to the level of really making it deep and meaningful and emotional and what I call Ted worthy. And when you have a well-chosen well crafted, well told origin story, it just makes all the difference in the world, and I've seen it with leader after leader after leader after leader after leader. You know Mike McCalla wits. When I worked with him, we really got underneath that story of how he sold his company made all this money and then turned into the angel investor of death and had to tell his family that he had just bankrupted them. And his little daughter ran into her room and got her piggy bank and I still get teary eyed, and I've heard that story about 5000 times, because I worked with them on it. No one ever forgets that story. And they fall in love with Mike McCalla wits and it's true. It's authentic. It's real. And that's how it works. Right? And Sabrina Starling told the story of how she grew up in her and her I think it was her grandpa slim, slim Starling had this gas station had this brilliant idea that if he had a drive-in movie theater, he could sell more gas and just suck the whole family into this endless cycle of 24/7 work. Right? And, and she watched her family go through that and now she helps entrepreneurs take their lives back because she almost you know like that almost destroyed her life. Right? And, and it's authentic and it's real and that's a real story and people never forget that right? And they want to work with her if they're at all and look the great news about the stories if somebody's not interested in that story, they're not your client.

John Bates  35:04

Right? And those authentic stories when we discover them and craft them and tell them Well, there's just nothing better, right? Do get that origin story. And when people click on about us, tell us that origin story, have a two to three minute video that just tells us the origin story of the founder, and then maybe do one of those for everybody in the in the top of the organization, have them say why they are a part of this organization, what it is that inspires him.

John Bates  35:38

And it's always there. And my experience is that a vast majority of people aren't even aware of how inspiring their own story is. And that's, you know, that's the key. So, if people want to get that we can put it in the show notes. But when people sign up for my free mini trainings, I do them every Sunday morning, they come out, they're super, super short. And it's a great way because I know people are busy, I got a lot going on, I don't expect them to dedicate hours a day to what I'm talking about. But if they can dedicate three minutes on Sunday, and then keep it in their head for the rest of the week, it's a great way to develop an excellent communication habit, right. And when people sign up for that, I'll send them two documents all about finding their origin story, and then giving an example of my origin story and breaking it down about why each piece is in there and what I'm trying to accomplish with everything. And that if people took that and just did that, oh, my gosh, the difference I've seen just that one thing make is unbelievable. I was going to ask how people can start with their origin story. Because I feel like when you start, when you start a business, it's often because I'm really good at something, or because I identified a problem. And I think I have the solution for it. But you're not really thinking of the emotional concept of it. So, we'll make sure that that that valuable tool is in the show notes. I want to ask about TED Talk. Because so I frickin love TED Talks.

Dana Dowdell  37:16

 I think there are, there's just so much incredible content out there. And you can use it in business, you can use it in teaching and education. And I still show I remember; I watched Dan Pink's theory of motivation when I was in college. So that's, you know, 12 years ago, and I still I show it to my students now. And I teach at the college level, because it's such a valuable thing. And it oh my gosh, it stands the test of time. But how for someone who is really looking to, to really scale Ted Talks can be a huge tool. Do you have any crazy success stories of people that you've coached on TED Talks? And kind of what that brought to their business? 

John Bates  38:02

Well, you know, let me just lead in with a few quick, just things and then keep me on track. But one thing is, Ted gets credit for re popularizing it. But I've come to realize over the last decade of working with 1000s of leaders all over the world, in business in in nonprofits everywhere, right, they astronauts, I've come to realize that I think that what we call the TED format, is actually just the original format. It's the format that freakin works with human beings. And if people want to get some really key insights on what the TED, like, I have my take on the TED format, I've never worked for Ted, I love Ted, I've spoken at TED a number of times i pro bono coach for the TED Fellows program, but I don't work for them, right. So, I'm not the I'm not officially Ted anything. But I have a I have more than a decade of really digging into what I think the TED format is. 

John Bates  39:07

you know, it's, it's a, it's a very, there's some very specific things that go in there, right, like vulnerability, authenticity, all those kinds of things. And there's actually a document called the 10 commandments. And I, if you go to youtube.com, forward slash exec speaking, which is my YouTube channel, I've got a folder of 10 breaking down all 10 of the 10 commandments in about one-to-two-minute segments. And if somebody were to listen to that, and always apply all of the 10 commandments to everything they ever did, oh my gosh, would they be the best speaker around it? So, it doesn't have to just be for Ted, right? The reason it's so powerful, yes, Ted offers a lot, but the reason is so powerful because this is what human beings want

John Bates  40:00

To be communicated with like, if that makes sense, right? This is how we want to be communicated with. And now getting me back to the original question, oh, how? I just think about it for a second. You know, how can a business owner, use TED Talk? Or how? What are some examples of seeing TED Talks and really, like, impact someone's business in a positive way. So, I'll tell you this story of one of my clients that I talked about a lot.

John Bates  40:30

Her name's Melinda Richter. And when I met her, she was going to speak at TEDx San Diego, and I was the coach for TEDx San Diego that year. And they said, you gotta meet with John. And she was like, I don't need it speaker coach, like she was already one of the best speakers in the world. No, no questions about it. And she said, don’t use be your coach and said, oh, no, everybody has to meet with John at least once. And so, she sat down with me, we talked, I listened to her story that she had been telling, it was already a great story. But there were a few key elements that were missing that had it land wrong. And we fixed those elements. And, you know, this is a great example of a great leadership trait. That sounds like me bragging, but it's not. It's a great leadership trait on Melinda's part, at the end of that conversation, she said, John, you know what, I thought I didn't need a speaker, coach, but you are much more than a speaker coach, like what you've done for me today is so valuable, that I'm going to keep you close, I'm going to introduce you to everybody in my inner circle, and we are going to be friends for life. Now. That was her, speaking to the greatness in me that I had not even gotten present to, yet she was the first really big client that I ever had. She was the biggest deal person I'd ever worked with up to that point. And when she said that that changed my life. And that's a great leadership trait. So that's a side note, right? But to speak to people's greatness is just such a huge gift to give them as a leader and to be willing to stand for it. But what happened is she had a company called prescients, prescience. And they were doing, they were trying to make it faster and easier for big science, healthcare,

John Bates  42:24

to come to market, right? Because it's like, it's so easy in the in the tech industry, but it's so hard in the healthcare industry, right. So, she was trying to incubate and make things happen faster for that. She we made these tiny tweaks to her talk, she absolutely crushed it, TEDx San Diego, ended up getting bought by Johnson and Johnson. And she has now been for the last 10 years, the Global Head of Johnson and Johnson innovations, J labs. And they have utterly transformed the reputation of Johnson and Johnson with early-stage startups. And as being an innovator in the field. It's the most innovative thing that's happened in healthcare in a decade. And I genuinely believe that the reason she's so successful is because when people hear her origin story, they just want to be part of what she's up to.

John Bates  43:24

And, and, you know, I won't go into it right now. But in that document that all that will give people about origin stories, there's a link to her telling a version of that origin story, or they could just Google, Melinda Richter, TEDx San Diego, and see that original TED Talk that she gave. But look, she says that story everywhere because I told her Melinda, if anytime it's a new audience, or even partially a new audience, that mass of people that matter, tell that story. And don't change it. Just keep making it better iterate it, just tell that story. That's the first thing people need to hear and know about you. And don't feel bad if some people in the room have heard it. 2030 100 times. Tell that story. And she did. And boom. And listen, there are just there's example after example, after example of that, it's just how it works. 

Russ Harlow  44:21

You know, it's interesting, because I've heard Mike McCalla wits say the same thing about you. He said I don't need a public speaking coach. I do this all the time. I'm great at this. It's fine. And immediately learned. Oh, yeah, I can be a lot better at what I do. 

John Bates  44:33

You know, Russ, it's funny. It reminds me of something that just struck me maybe three or four months ago, I realized that for a really long time, I suffered from a massive problem. And that problem was that I was the best speaker at the conference. Always at least top three. If I wasn't the best. I was easily top three at any conference I ever talked at, but the bar was so low. And I realized that as long as I as long as I was happy with that, I was never going to fulfill my, my true potential as a communicator and as a leader. And I think that's what I've come to realize over the last decade of supporting people like Mike McCalla wits and Melinda Richter, they are people who are interested in just becoming better. You know, what is it Kaizen constant improvement? And anybody? Like, I don't, I am absolutely okay, I have had it happen when top leaders, you know, their company will come and we'll get it all set, and they're gonna work with me, and then they decide they don't need to work with me because they're good enough already. I'm not interested in those people. I don't mind losing those contracts. And, and I see some of them a year later, two, three years later, and they're still doing all the same stuff that's cut it undermining their message and making them look less powerful on stage. And I'm like, sorry, I could not convince you to work with me, you know, 

Russ Harlow  46:15

let me bring this back down to Earth for all of our small business owners that don't necessarily want to be a Tete, you know, give a TED talk one day, yeah, I want, and I might be one of those I might want to give. I love a captive audience as much as the next. But I think what's important to understand is, this is a fundamental way of understanding communication that we can use in our business, we can use it in our marketing to find our ideal customer to bring in, I don't care if you're a restaurant owner, or a contractor, or you know, a CEO, being able to communicate these things, this origin story could be the foundation of your marketing message. And if you can solidify, it doesn't have to be a 20-minute TED Talk. It can be it can be, you know, a 45 second clip on your video on your website, it could be an email message that you send out an email marketing, understanding your origin story can really touch people. And that gets you from Yes, yes, yes. No. To Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes.

John Bates  47:20

And Russ and Dana, I always tell people, Look, it's great. If you didn't get on the TED or TEDx stage, go do that. I support that fully. But don't wait for that. Create your TED like talk. And then use it in every place that you just mentioned. Plus, Ross, right, like the 45 second version of your origin story, the 20-minute version of why you care so much about what you're doing, and put it on the right hand, if anybody watches it. Awesome. And by the way, once people get these well-crafted Ted worthy talks, stuff shows up for them to give them it's really weird. You know, like, once you got that thing, the opportunities just start to pop. And, and it's not just for Ted, it's in any you don't ever have to give the whole talk, we when you create a really good Ted worthy talk, you end up with probably hundreds of really well polished Lego blocks that you can now it's like reusable code, you can just take it anywhere and everywhere. The other great place is with the media. And you know, if I know that a lot of the people in Mike circles are really into the story brand guy. And, dude, I'm jealous. I think that guy's brilliant. And here's what I'll say.

John Bates  48:42

I focus on a subset of so if somebody's doing story brand, and they also go to the trouble of creating their Ted like talk and focus on their one idea, were spreading and focus on their origin story, well chosen, well crafted, well told, it will explode their story brand stuff, you know. So that's the way to think about it. Like is in marketing and talking to customer customers in talking to your team at all hands meeting like this stuff just comes in everywhere. And listen.

John Bates  49:17

This ever I think everybody thinks all these great leaders wing that stuff. couldn't be further from the truth. Steve Jobs after they created the talks that took a long time in the first place. He would practice it for 45 hours for a 45-minute talk an hour for every minute, right? And the people who look really fast on their feet when they're talking to the press and they're just stuff flows off and it all comes out in sound bites Do you know how hard they practice to do that? That doesn't just happen. Right and I think everybody's under the impression that all those people are winging. It couldn't be further from the truth. The reason we call him a natural community cater Steve Jobs. We don't want to work as hard as he did to get that good. Yep, you're absolutely.

Russ Harlow  50:05

Absolutely right. And so, think about it in these terms, too. If you're at a networking event, you're at the local chamber, you're at the Rotary Club. These are places for you to use this story, this app. So, this is value, but this is very substantive this is this can help you grow your business. And yeah, it takes work. It's just like remembering somebody's name, you have to work at it, people say, Oh, I'm not really good at that. Nobody knows you have to work at it. Same thing with communicating, you have to work at it.

John Bates  50:36

You know, I just I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. You know, and it's, there's a great way to think about it. And the acronym pi, is how to think about it. So, there's your performance. There's your impression, and there's your exposure, pi. So, the performance is all the work you do like 99% of your time, right? What you're doing at work. And then there's that five minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes of exposure to the board, or exposure to the customer or exposure to the press, right? Very short amount like that is nothing in terms of compared to how much performance time you're spending, right. But the performance times the exposure equals the impression. So, if the exposure is anything less than one, like let's say you're doing million-dollar work, but the way you talk about it is a point five, oh, now you're doing $500,000 work. Sorry, right. But if you're doing million-dollar work, and how you talk about it is 10. Now you're doing $10 million work, that's way better, right? So, people don't realize that they need to put in a chunk of time to prepare for that exposure, that's part of your job. Right? That is something you should put in the middle of the day when you are fresh in that really key productivity time, not Sunday morning, before the kids get up, you know, you're not gonna do that. And it's gonna suck if you do anyway.

Russ Harlow  52:16

I, I want I want to say thank you, you and I connected a few months ago, and you sent me some materials. My daughter used it or public speaking class. And as you know, we spent some time on YouTube watching John Bates. And she did fantastic. And she took some of the other some of your advice, I am going to jump in your free weekly mini trainings for my origin story, I can't wait to do that. Tell us where else our listeners can find you and connect with you and improve their communication game. So, Ed dot executive speakingsuccess.com is where I've got my online courses, and I've got one coming up for us, I'd love to have you in it on January 19, we begin and it happens every week for 10 weeks, we skip one in there somewhere. But and by the 10th. One, everyone will have their Ted like talk 11 minutes 1011 minute Ted like talk, and we'll all deliver them. And that 10 thing and get a zoom recording of it in case you want to use it right. And it's 10 weeks with eight people. So, it's a small cohort and if you're in there, then we only have seven more slots. But that is a chance to put together your TED like talk get clear on your origin story, all those key components. And it's a brilliant course I've done it a bunch now and it works like a charm. So, if people if people don't want to do that, and they want to do this self-paced version, it's also there too. And word to the wise find me on social media, because we've got a discount, we've got a black Friday discount going till the end of the year. So, I'm on LinkedIn at Ford slash in Ford slash John Bates, very active there. I'm also on Twitter at John Bates. I tweet out a bunch of astronaut stuff amongst my content there. And then YouTube, its forward slash exec speaking. And that's got a bunch of great free resources. And then at my website, executivespeakingsuccess.com.

John Bates  54:28

If you go there and you click Resources, and click the mini training, it's the free mini training register for that and I'll keep you up to date with the other stuff. But what I'll do is every week send you a very short thing on Sunday morning that you can just check in with its take you to three minutes way less than five minutes a week. And if you just keep that present for the rest of the week. People tell me it helps them develop a much better leadership can communication habit it keeps their head in the game without taking a lot of time and taking them away from all this stuff other stuff that they got to do. 

Dana Dowdell  55:09

I love it so many good tools, too. Oh, 

Russ Harlow  55:11

great podcast too John, you want to promote that a little 

John Bates  55:13

thank you. Yeah, that's speak like a leader dot show speak like leader dot show. And, you know, boy, there's some great guests there. I talked to John Foley, who was the lead solo pilot for the Blue Angels. I talked with Mike McCalla wits I talked with Sabrina Starling, I've talked with Commodore Oscar Rojas, who was the commodore of explosive ordnance disposal group one whom I did some work with. And he's now the commodore of fleet five to over in the Middle East an international fleet that he's commanding that protects like the Hormuz straits and stuff. And oh, boy, that's my most popular podcast to date, Oscar Rojas, and, and just an amazing array of people. And we just have a great conversation about communication leadership, their life, their mission, their path. And, and you know, it's a thank you. I love that thing. I mean, I'm so glad I'm doing I love listening fun. 

Russ Harlow  56:15

I enjoy listening. You do have great guests. Now we do because you're one of ours. Oh, yeah. 

Dana Dowdell  56:22

John, thank you so, so much for making time today. 

John Bates  56:26

You're super welcome. I just want to say real quickly that I think that entrepreneurs are going to save the world. And I am not in any way exaggerating, I have been an entrepreneur my entire life. And I just find it incredibly inspiring. When people are willing to take the risk it is to be an entrepreneur, to bring something that didn't exist to life in the world to serve other people, whether it's an accounting firm, whether it's a lawn mowing firm, whether it's a biotech product, I mean, it I care a lot less about what they're doing than that they cared enough about something that they would bring it to life like that. So, I and it's not always easy. And you know, I have spent my fair share of time crying so hard that I had to blow my nose. And not everybody's willing to do that. And I'm just really inspired by the people that are, man. 

Dana Dowdell  57:36

Oh, man. I'm not even going to plug our podcasts. I'm going to leave everybody with that. Thank you, John. So much and yeah, thanks for listening everyone