83. Make it Legal with Vicky Smolyar

How does intellectual property help a business? What's the difference between a copyright and a trademark? Do I need a trademark on my business name and logo? We talk with Attorney Vicky Smoylar about protecting your business by building a good legal foundation. Vicky is the founder and head attorney at Smolyar Law, a boutique virtual intellectual property and business law firm for online businesses and creative entrepreneurs.  As both a business lawyer and a business owner, Vicky is highly in tune with the specific needs of her clients, helping them build, secure, and monetize not just individual businesses, but entire brands, using her unique Intellectual Properly Framework.

DISCLAIMER
The information provided is for educational purposes only and shouldn't be construed as legal advice. Vicky is an attorney, but she's not your attorney, and no attorney-client relationship is established by your listening to this podcast. Some states may consider this attorney advertising.

Where you can connect with Vicky Smolyar
Website: https://www.smolyarlaw.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trademark.attorney.vicky/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vickysmolyar/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/intellectualproperly/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSG5jmamrBCwvtucwAnJ1Sg

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Transcript

Dana Dowdell  00:23

Hey Russ! 

Russ Harlow  00:24

Dana, how are you today? 

Dana Dowdell  00:25

Good, how are you?

Russ Harlow  00:26

Doing very well.

Dana Dowdell  00:27

Awesome. We're going to talk about some law, some compliance and copywriting, and trademarking stuff, which is a huge part of owning a business. And we're joined by Vicki Smolyar. She is the owner of Smolyar Law, and she's gonna tell us everything that we need to know about business and copywriting and trademarking and all the nitty gritty about compliance when you own a business. Welcome, Vicki.

Vicki Smolyar  00:54

Thank you so much for having me, guys! 

Dana Dowdell  00:56

Thanks for being here. So I feel like your story is very similar to a lot of other female business owners who start a business when they're on maternity leave, or when they're, you know, bonding with their new baby. So tell us a little bit about how you started your law firm.

Vicki Smolyar  01:13

So yes, but I guess mine was a little more forced than that. I basically, you know, went to law school to try and ride out the recession. And, you know, when I got out, it wasn't exactly the best market yet. So I got basically the first job that I could, which was working at a bank, and it was not a fun job, but you know, it pays the bill. So I was there. And then I went on maternity leave, and they laid me off. And, I mean, it happens, it happens all the time. Actually, you hear about it all the time. You're shaking your head, but it's true. And I just decided that honestly, I couldn't I couldn't do it anymore, you know. So that's when I decided that I'm going to go out on my own. And I started my own practice. And honestly, I have not looked back since.

Russ Harlow  02:09

So is it really just as simple as hanging your shingle and going? Yep, I'm out there?

Vicki Smolyar  02:13

Oh, no, it's not. It's not obvious. It's just like any other business. You know, like the first few years, I was scrapping for any business that I could get. I wasn't, you know, focused on any one area. I mean, it was always business law. But it was like a little bit of real estate and a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And then in 2017, I want to say I decided to just really niche down and I started working exclusively with online businesses, and creative entrepreneurs. Because that was a space that I was really familiar with. I actually had my roots in business roots in the music industry. So these were my people, these creatives. And so I started catering directly to them. And so that really included just primarily trademarks, copyrights. So that soft IP, I do not practice patents and contracts. So and when I decided to work with those people because they were also strictly in the online space, I decided that I was going to take my practice, completely virtual. So ever since 2018, I want to say, I have been completely online. So I was you know, zooming before it was cool.

Russ Harlow  03:32

So does that mean now? Are you just working within your state? You said you're in New York?

Vicki Smolyar  03:37

I am in New York.

Russ Harlow  03:40

I was just gonna ask, you know, if you're online, you think, Oh, you can go everywhere. But that's not how law licensing works. Right.

Vicki Smolyar  03:47

So that is correct. Except that federal, rather trademark and copyright. That's a federal practice. So actually, my clients are everywhere. And that's sort of my favorite part about the practice because I work with clients internationally, right? The ones that want to register the trademarks within the United States, and then I also work with clients in other states. So that's fun. But the contracts practice is is usually local yields correct.

Dana Dowdell  04:16

When you're starting your business, did you have anything to model it after? Like, how did you kind of make it happen?

Vicki Smolyar  04:25

So, you know, when I originally started, no, I was like I said, I was just scrapping for anything, right? Anything that was thrown my way I was taking it but when I started niching down and I started focusing on my online, you know, business owners practice. There wasn't really much out there. And if you look right now, they're still law firms are still sort of struggling to catch up with the technology and you know, we're in 2022, but most of them are still sort of really outdated in their practices. I mean, I think the pandemic helped. I think a lot of people are starting to play catch up, but At the time, when I was starting out, it was a little bit difficult. There were a couple of people who were doing sort of what I was doing. But even the technology wasn't there as much as it is now. So it was definitely a lot of trial and error to figure out sort of what works for people. You know, at that point, I remember, when I needed somebody to sign a contract, I was still sort of like sending them a PDF, and I was like, or you got to print it out, and you got to scan it, then you got to send it to me. And now you know, everything is done literally in a second e signature. You know, so So it's definitely gotten much easier. There's a lot of technology out there that sort of helps me run the practice a lot more efficiently.

Dana Dowdell  05:41

Do you have any mistakes that you made in starting your business that stand out to you along the way?

Vicki Smolyar  05:49

That's a good question. Honestly, I wish I would have just niched down right away. I think I lost a lot of time. I think that in business, I guess, from 2015, when I started to sort of 2017, when it came to me two years is a really long time to sort of be I mean, I had to do what I had to do, right? Like I had kids that beat, I couldn't really, you know, just say, All right, I'm just gonna sit around and wait for people to come to me, but I wish that I had kind of like, focused a little bit earlier, because I think that in terms of growth, in terms of where I am right now, I think I would have been in a totally different place had I started in 2015 versus 2017.

Russ Harlow  06:35

So was it just, I think it's important for us to understand, you know, as business owners, you know, what we like to do, because, and the people we like to work with? So was it, the area of law, or the people that were, you were focusing in on are a little bit of both that helped you kind of niche down.

Vicki Smolyar  06:56

So I think it was a little bit of both, right. And I, like I said, I have my roots are in the music business. That's where I started my first real business, I had an entertainment management company. So I was working with local bands and, and in, you know, contracts and copyrights. That's what I was doing then. And so that was something that I've always loved. But before I went to law school, I wanted to make sure that, you know, I was going to like commit to that three figures that I was giving to them to go to law school. So I went there, I tried different things. You know, I liked contracts, I liked business, and then it kind of took me in one direction. And it sort of took, I guess, getting laid off and having to like scrap in all these like random areas of law to figure out like, this is my home. And I think, right now it's probably easier for people to do it. I mean, like I said, I was in like a really specific situation, where like, I had to make money, so I was going to do whatever it took to do that. But if you're not in that sort of position, I think it's probably easier. And I think that for business, it's really important to sort of nail that down as soon as you possibly can.

Dana Dowdell  08:07

I feel like we hear that a lot like niche down, but it's in I mean, I'm still experiencing this where it's like in direct contrast of that kind of scarcity mindset of like, I need all business, I need all the business, right, I have bills to pay when you niche down. Did you do that? Make it feel easier to do business?

Vicki Smolyar  08:29

Yes, yes. You know, when they say I think there's like a thing that I and I used to hear that all the time, like when you're talking to everybody, you're not talking to anybody, right? And so, for me, the things that I was passionate about, once I nail that down, it reflected in the way that I did my business like my clients know that like I am really like dedicated to the work that I'm doing. And so I think that that really ends up paying off right, so I'm not like, you know, I don't really care about real estate, like when I talk to those people, you know, they kind of saw that I was like, I wasn't really in it, you know what I mean? But like when I talk to my clients now about the trademarks, but the copyrights about their contracts, like they know that like, it's almost as if it's like my business like they are like my babies. So and I think that that that really does make a difference.

Russ Harlow  09:21

And I think when a lot of businesses start up they don't realize how much I give you an example. My son works with me certified we do disaster restoration, but when we're not busy he's hustling face but he's 17 he's hustling Facebook groups doing like landscaping, mowing lawns, little odd jobs at landscapers won't do. But so then he wanted to have a place where his customers could leave them reviews. I mean, he's been in my business for, you know, five years now. And he's like, Well, I want to let people know. So he registered a business name with Google that was trademarked. He's a boy I scout and so he chose to call it Eagle Scout. And I was like, You can't do that you can't finish this, you're gonna get in so much trouble. Plus, you're just hustling right now, think about registering your landscaping is you got to charge sales tax and everything else. And I think there's a lot of businesses that just kind of start like that. Now he's 17. So we're gonna kind of a break, but there are grownups are like, what's the big deal? I just gotta go in. I don't need a contract. You know? How do you see businesses come back to you going? I think I need to fix some things.

Vicki Smolyar  10:31

Okay, Russ 65% of my business is fixing DIYs 65%. Like, that's not? Yeah, I know. That's not an exaggeration. I've done the math. Yeah, because the thing is that people don't realize the deal is really complicated. And the internet makes people think that, like, they can just be experts in everything, you know, like, we have, like the legal scholars that will come to me like, well, I did a Google search. And I'm like, Well, great. Well, probably should not like confuse your Google search with my legal degree that took me like four years to get three years plus practice, whatever. But you know, um, and, yeah, it's really complicated. I see a lot of mistakes. And, you know, some of them are harmless, some of them probably not so much trademark infringement, not so much. There's a lot of, you know, information online that's conflicting. It's confusing. It's in over a lot of people's heads. When they look at it, you know, you look at one website, it'll tell you one thing, you look at another website, it'll tell you another thing. But yes, yes, that is definitely something that I see on a day-to-day basis. And it's unfortunate, but you know, it's most of the time, it's fixable. So let's, let's put it that way.

Russ Harlow  11:49

I'm just really shocked. It's that high up of a percentage, but maybe I shouldn't,

Vicki Smolyar  11:54

because, you know, it shouldn't be but then you also have, you know, you have the innocent mistakes, people make thinking they're going to do it on their own. But then you also have these, like, cheapy legal companies, and I'm not going to name by name, but I'm sure you can all figure it out. And they like to, you know, to tell people that oh, yeah, you could just do this for like, you know, 599 Whatever, register your business register a trademark $49 That's like, what do you think you're getting for? $45? Like, like, really? Like, $45? Like, 250? Now, it just costs $250 for a USPTO filing fee? Like what's dollars gonna give you you know, what I mean? Like, like, common sense. Probably should play a role here. But no, but no, I'm

Russ Harlow  12:37

Vicki, I would equate that to like naming a star after somebody, like, and it goes into the starter register, it's like, the same thing, right? It remains nothing. He's just throw away $45.

Vicki Smolyar  12:51

I mean, $45. And then, you know, people are gullible, right? Because you look at these websites. And, and, in fact, I just did like a video on this the other day, like, there's so many of these scammy websites that are now there's 13, new ones that popped up since January. And yeah, there's a world trademark review did a whole article on it. 13 new ones since January, completely fraudulent. But they're like, $45, we'll file your trademark, you can call us and talk to one of our attorneys. I mean, do you really think you're going to talk to an attorney for $45? And they're going to file your trademark, like, Give me a break? You know, at some point, you're like, alright, well, you had this coming, like, you should have expected this, like you're running a business, like, come on.

Dana Dowdell  13:34

I think some of it may just see that, you know, not everyone starts a business and has all this funding and capital built up to start a business that are bootstrapping it, right.

Vicki Smolyar  13:44

Yes. And, you know, there's okay. So I think I talked to you about this before, but there's definitely a messaging problem in the legal industry, where like, you see attorneys all the time screaming, like, protect your this, like, you really need that. And the honest truth is like that 95% of the things that they say you need, you don't really need, especially when you're starting up, like, especially if you're an online business, and you're a small business, and you're not making that much money, like our contracts fantastic. 1,000% Like, should you want to have one because of all the benefits that it'll bring to you? 1,000%? Do you really need it? No, like, there are literally hundreds of businesses out there that are not using contracts, like people message me all the time. Because I'm, you know, always talking about how you should want to have a contract. And they're like, Well, why? And I'm like, Well, you know, it speaks to your professionalism, whatever, you know, I'll go through the list of all the benefits. But do you really need one like if you've been doing business for the last year without one, and you know, like, is everyone really going to face that situation where they're going to have like this nightmare client that's like not going to pay them that's going to like, you know, abuse their time. Use their whatever privileges? No, it's a really rare situation should you want to provide for yes, but it's, you know, it's not going to happen all the time. And same thing with trademarks, right? Like, a lot of businesses that have registered trademarks will probably never even going to use that trademark, like the benefits of it, you know, gives you the exclusivity, and allows other people, you know, allows you to exclude other people from using your name. Yes, those are amazing things. But a lot of businesses are not going to really need that, right. So to scream and yell and say, protect this protect that, like, there's like this invisible boogeyman that lives under their beds, it's gonna, like, pop out at any time, just like take away everything they've ever worked for, like that drives me crazy. I hate that because it forced people into this position where they're like, terrified, and they're like, I have to act, I have no money, I'm gonna like max out my credit cards to like, hire this attorney, and do this off the bat. And then it ends up that they never needed it from the start, right? So I think the best thing that I can do is this, the way I work as an attorney, I will present you with all the facts, I will present you with all the benefits, I will present you with all the ways in which it can help your business and then you make that decision whether you need this or not.

Dana Dowdell  16:15

I always say I'm an HR consultant in my business. And I always say to my clients, like, it's not a problem until it's a problem. So do you need a handbook? Maybe not. But is it nice to have? And does it communicate the expectations? Absolutely. And it's the same as the contract, right? It communicates the expectations and that working relationship,

Vicki Smolyar  16:36

the boundaries of expectations, it lets people know exactly what they're getting, which speaks to your professionalism, right? And business Perception is everything right? So like if you're gonna be if you're Are you playing business? Or are you a real business, like you're presenting someone with a with a nice, you know, looking professional contract that spells everything out, they're going to want to do business with you. But it's not a need. It's really most, for the most part, not a need. But you're being a proactive business owner and getting one of these things. And that's always better than being a reactive business owner, right, like having to deal with all these crisis's as they come along, you're definitely going to spend a lot more money on legal fees, like the 65% of my clients. But, but you don't need it. If you don't have the money for it. You don't have to, like, take out a second mortgage on your house in order to pay me like I'm not gonna, you know, deal with that.

Russ Harlow  17:30

So I've got a question. Because we talked to somebody about trademarking not too long ago. And before I was with a franchise, and that was all handled, for me, it was their trademark and, and so now I've opened my own business, but I'm local. So I don't, I don't think I need a federal trademark, right. But I know you can trademark at the state level. And I'm thinking if I do grow my business to where I want it to be, I might want that protection, so nobody tries to ride my coattails. So can you tell me a little bit about the difference between state and federal trademarking, and how

Vicki Smolyar  18:08

I think that's a huge misconception that a lot of business owners have that even if you're operating with one within a state, as long as your business sort of touches interstate commerce, so like the things that commerce can control, like, for example, if you have clients that are your restaurant, and you have clients that are coming from out of state, even though you're only in one state, you're still considered to be operating in interstate commerce. And then you can have a federally registered trademark, because the federally registered trademark basically gives you nationwide rights, which means that if you're operating in, let's say, New York, you still have rights in Connecticut, even if you're not actually doing business in Connecticut. And so that's important for a lot of businesses, especially the ones that are operating online, maybe not so much like the brick and mortar locations like me, perhaps not what you're doing. But if you're working outside of your state, then you can definitely qualify for federal protection, it does give you a lot more than what state protection would give you. So state would only be within your state exactly like you said, right. And I think like it sort of varies from state to state. So I can't speak to any other state except New York, New Jersey number one license, but it's the same idea. But it's localized, right? So nobody within your state would be able to sort of have a similar name to yours. And it's not identical. It's similar. That's also another misconception that other people have. And it's also not universal, right? So like if your name was like, I don't know, whatever, Ross's whatever. It doesn't mean that only nobody can only use Ross's landscaping, let's say right. If it was a related business, it probably sounded similar to your name. It would also probably not be allowed to register and you could also come up for them for sort of, like you said, riding your coattails or Um, to that end. So it's, it's a good idea for everyone to have a good it's not something that's needed for most businesses, but it's definitely a good idea to have. But I always say that federal 100% Trump's state,

Russ Harlow  20:16

and how does it different than from like registering a trade name? Because I'm sure they're different.

Vicki Smolyar  20:22

So the trade name, are you talking about just like like a DBA. So that really just registers your name, that specific name with the Secretary of State itself that the Secretary it's really does nothing, right. Anyone can go and register, like almost the exact same name, change one letter, and they have an LLC with the same name, that doesn't give you any of the protection that trademark gives you, right? Because trademark, it's not just using a name, you actually have to use the name in a very specific way in a trademark capacity, which means you're using it in commerce. And that's how the rights attract, attach rather. So the LLC is really just like a corporate registry. And I get that question a lot. Because people are like, well, I registered my LLC. I'm done right, like no one else can do it. Yeah, no one else can register an LLC with the same name but taking go and use it in a trademark capacity. You don't have those, those trademark rights. It's totally different. Yeah.

Dana Dowdell  21:22

You have a great resource on your website about the difference between trademarks and copyright. So I want people to go to your website and check it out because she answers all these questions. But for those that are listening, can you give us kind of like a quick snapshot about what's what's copywriting versus trademarking.

Vicki Smolyar  21:40

So trademark protects basically, your business name, your logo, your tagline or any sort of short phrase that's associated with your business. And then you can also it also protects what's known as trade dress. So product, shape, and packaging. Some colors are protected smells are protected. Plato, for example, the smell of Plato is actually a registered trademark. And like the color blue of the Tiffany's box, that's also registered trademark, Apple has a pending trademark for the air pods like the shape of it, right. So it's anything that allows a consumer to tie it back to you, right? So like, when they see the name, the logo, the shape, whatever, if they're able to tie it back to you, then that's the trademark, the copyright, it protects your creative works, right? So your written works, you're like, you know, of course, graders have workbooks, your videos, for example, it protects your musical recordings and protects artwork, photographs, you know, anything that you sort of create, like in your brain, and then you put it on paper, or you know, put it on a computer that's been recorded in, it's called a tangible medium. So the minute goes from your head to like the computer in the paper, that is what copyright protects. So it's, it's two different intellectual properties. And the laws sort of offer two types of protection for the trademark and for the copyright.

Dana Dowdell  23:16

Is it for on the copywriting thing, because I see it all the time at the bottom of people's websites, you know, like they see, and it says copyright, you know, 2022? Is, is it as simple as that? Or is can it be more complicated.

Vicki Smolyar  23:30

So it, it's as simple as that, right? Because you don't have to actually register your copyright with the US Copyright Office in order for the rights to attach, as soon as it goes from your brain, onto paper, to computer, whatever into that tangible medium, you own the copyright. And the only reason really, that you would want to register that copyright is if you want to monetize that work, right? Because you want to make sure that it's official that this work is yours. And or if you want to enforce those rights, if somebody's sort of infringing on them, using them without your permission, you need to have that registered copyright in order to go after them. And actually, to be honest, trademark is the same people always think that just because just you know, if you're to have the trademark, you have to register it, but that's not true. There are common law trademark, right. So as soon as you start using that name in a trademark capacity, the trademark rights apply. The common law rights are very restricted. They're like, again, it's one of those things where like the law has not caught up with technology. So you would think that you know, you're using a trademark online, you're kind of using it everywhere, right? But the law doesn't consider it like that. So it gets really muddy really messy. That's why I always say like, if you really want those trademark rights just registered, it's not as simple as this copyright. The trademark is a little bit more nuanced.

Dana Dowdell  24:53

So I know you don't want to scare people into action and make them feel like they have to you know, hire you know, an attorney for 20 $5,000 But do you have any stories either from the industry or from your own clients of like, where it can go wrong?

Vicki Smolyar  25:11

First of all, it's never $25,000 Don't scare people. Yeah. But then get to work, but I've never charged anyone. $25,000. But yes, I mean, like I said, it's always a good idea to be proactive, right? Like, especially in the online space, like, where everything is, like, so freely available, and there really is sort of no shortage of bad actors. And I'll be honest, sometimes it's actually impossible to shut down the bad actors, because they're over in China. And it's like, impossible to get to them, right. Like even social media, I mean, you can shut down one account, and another one will pop up literally the next day. But there is a way to sort of, like, contain it, you know, like, I've had, course creators who were just kind of like, I mean, they didn't, they weren't careless, they just didn't know better, right, like, so you worked so hard to put so much time and effort into like creating this, this resource for people like it's supposed to be like your source of income, you're supposed to be the only one profiting off of it. But in sort of, you know, this rush to get it to market, they're like, I'm gonna post it in the Facebook group, I'm gonna do it this way, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put up a YouTube video. And then they're, like, shocked that it starts popping up on all of these like, websites, there's apparently like, all these websites where people take courses that are, like, easy to get, and they'll like, download them onto this website where people can access them for free. And they're like, Oh, my God, Holy fuck, like, like I'm losing out on like, so much money. Because I can't sell us people can just go and get it for free now, right. So it's definitely important to make sure like, if you're doing something like that, like that's supposed to be like for passive income, right? Like, you want to definitely go and you want to secure these registrations, because, like I said, it's always better to have them and not need them, than need them and not have them. But again, it's something that that you kind of have to think about. Like there are, it's not something that you need meat, meat, meat, meat, like, I don't want people to think that like, just because you don't have it, someone's gonna come in and steal it, like, there's still other ways that you can go about it, that you can sort of, like, minimize those risks that don't include copyright registration, or like trademark registration. But again, those are things that you should want to have, just because they're going to be so beneficial to you in the long run. And in the short, right, to be honest.

Russ Harlow  27:41

And if you want to build a business to sell, it's also an asset, right? Because now you've built something bigger, and it's got the protection that it needs to transfer that to somebody else, and they can have that confidence, which means you might be able to sell it for more.

Vicki Smolyar  27:58

That's 1,000% Correct, but even 100% Correct. The main, you know, the thing that I talk about all the time is, I tell my clients like, you don't want to build just a business, you want to build a brand, right? Because the brand is something that can sort of withstand time, like a business can come and go, depending on the economy, you know, it's here one day, it's not there, but your brand is going to sort of sustain all those headwinds. And so if you're going to be building a brand, then it's a lot of things that go into building that brand. And like you said, like, you want to have an end goal, right? With, with all those things that you're building, you want to you don't want them to just like sit around. Because at the end of the day, if you're operating online, your intellectual property, so like these, these copyrightable things, these trademark things those might be the only things that you have, those are the things that you're going to want to monetize. And so I work a lot with my clients and trying to figure out how they can take these assets and make more money off of them. But the problem is that if they're not registered, if they're not truly yours, and the only way unfortunately, they're truly yours is if they're registered, and you know, you're doing whatever you have to do to make sure that you keep that registration and that it's yours. And then once you have that, then you can do whatever you want with it. You can you could sell it, you can, you know, you have a trademark you can go and you can build relationships with with other businesses, like I have clients who, who sort of like build these brands, and now they're working with target, you know what I mean? Like, but you have to have sort of that has to be yours, like you said, like it has to be protected. I mean, I hate using that word, but it's true. Like it has to be yours like and that's sort of like the framework that I like to work with my clients I, I sort of developed this, this framework that I call it the intellectual property framework, right? So like, you're going to build it, you're going to secure it so that you know that it's yours and then you're going to monetize it. And that's how you really build these brands.

Dana Dowdell  30:00

I don't know if we can touch on this, but using other people's like photos, unknowingly in your content, we have a friend who, on their website, they used a Website Builder, but it was someone else's photo was used on the website, and they came after them for that photo. So are you able to speak on that at all?

Vicki Smolyar  30:23

I mean, there are actually, they're called copyright trolls. They have been no, that's your lesson. That's what they're called. There are these attorneys that literally just do that all day long. And they've been like, they've been sanctioned by the courts, they don't care. Like, they don't care, they will go after you, because the only thing that they're not really going to take you to court, they just want settlement, but the settlements are still like, you know, anywhere from a couple $100 to a couple $1,000 each. So you really have to be super, super careful. Because there's no such thing as unknowingly, right? Like, like, the internet is a trove of information, I think everybody knows that you can't go and just like take other people's shit and use it like as your own right, like, it's gonna get you in trouble. I know, you look surprised dress, but no, it's true. You can't do it, you have to make sure like, even if you're using, like, Canva I know a lot of people love, I love Canva. But if you're using that, for your social media, you know, there are certain rules that you have to follow, you gotta go read their Terms of Use and how you can use those images. If you are, for example, just pulling like just one picture, and you're using it in on your website, and it's bigger than like a certain size, I believe, then that's already considered a copyright infringement that's outside of their Terms of Use, and they can not Canva but the original copyright owner can come after you. So you definitely need to be reading like the small print if you're using any of those, those websites where you can like get the free stock images or whatever, you got to make sure that you're following like some of them want you to post like the attribution, right that they'll say like where it came from, with a copyright holder is other say, okay, you don't have to do it. But you can only use like, you know, in this size. So it's all really highly dependent on where you're getting that image. But you definitely should not just be like going into Google and finding something and using that, let's just put it that way.

Dana Dowdell  32:19

So you have to pay attention to the small print is what you're saying?

Vicki Smolyar  32:24

Yes. In life and in legal? Yes. 

Dana Dowdell  32:27

We ran into that when when developing the podcast to about the music that we use for the podcast, and I it, there are so many layers to it. And how you can use the music and then if you monetize it, how that might change? Yeah, how you use it. So yes, small, small print.

Vicki Smolyar  32:49

Yeah, same principle. I mean, it doesn't just apply to photos or images, right. Like, like you said, same with the commercial music and things like that. Yeah. Graphics. You know, some people even, you know, there are ways to get around it, right. Like, for example, like if you're going to be using it like in a meme capacity, right? Like, like, I love memes might be giving away my age, but memes. I'm always like, my entire social media is just like memes. And that's fine. Okay, because if you're just like pulling them from Jeffy, or wherever they're coming from wherever they're coming from, it's sort of considered fair use, right. But if I'm gonna go and I'm gonna pull, like the same graphic off of the internet and just use it, it's different type of use. So definitely small font.

Russ Harlow  33:38

How does one learn more about all of this? I mean, where do we other than hiring an attorney?

Vicki Smolyar  33:47

Right? Um, well, you know, like I said, the internet is a trove of information. I, I hate sending people there. Because, like I said, there's just so much stuff out there. A lot of it's not really accurate, but I think that you definitely you can find a lot of good sources like the copyright. The US copyright website has a lot of really good information on it. Same with the USPTO website, they have so much good information on it, you know, they can actually visit my social media. I have a lot of good information on it. I think a lot of other attorneys do as well. At least for me, I think it's really important to break this stuff down into sort of digestible fun in a digestible fun way for people because it's law is really heavy, like copyright is really you know, a heavy topic trademarks name. So, you know, I do my best to sort of break it down in a way that makes it more easy to understand, like with the means and the and the end, you know, just plain English that also drives me crazy because I you know, it's 2020 So I think the law can catch up at this point where like, we don't have to write things with the huge fours and the their two fours. Like, I hate that so much. So I try to, you know, everything in plain English in sort of short sentences, easy to understand, I think it's, you could find it, I think social media is actually a really great place for that, as long as you're going to like an actual attorney, because there are people that are posting stuff that shouldn't be posting stuff. But, you know, if you're going to, like, you know, some attorneys, social media to my social media, you can find it there.

Dana Dowdell  35:30

And your website has a ton of great resources and tools and q&a,

Vicki Smolyar  35:35

And I'm developing more as we speak. And actually, if, if, if somebody joins my mailing list, they'll be the first to get like any new sort of thing that I develop, I'm doing it like all the time, all this like informational stuff, and videos, and and just worksheets and cheat sheets and things like that, um, I think they're really important tools when you're, especially if you're starting out. So I like to make them freely available to people.

Russ Harlow  36:04

Did you also mention that you were doing a course?

Vicki Smolyar  36:07

I did, I did mention that to you. And that, again, goes back to the fact that I like to make things you know, available to people, I know that a lot of people who started businesses during the pandemic, because they needed to kind of like I needed to, and I needed resources. When I was starting out, I wish I had, you know, these sorts of resources when I was starting out, and not necessarily my law business. But like, for example, like, in my first music industry business, like I wish, you know, I, unfortunately, had to spend a lot of money on attorneys, and I didn't get what I was coming for, because I really wanted to learn, right? I didn't want just like done for you, thank you very much, you know, pay me, you know, on your way out. And so, you know, when I work one on one with clients, I like to offer them like information, like I said, like I like to empower my clients, I'd like to give them the information, let them make these sort of decisions from a place of power. And I know that you know, people that are starting out, they don't have those resources is like I said, I don't want you to like have to mortgage your house so that you can come talk to me like it's not there. I want to level the playing field a little bit. And I know there's a lot of people who want to register their trademarks, like I said, they know the benefits of it, but they can't afford the fees, you know, like working with me, it started $3,000 To register a trademark and some people can't afford that. So I am creating a course right now, it's hopefully will be out by the end of July, you know, providing that my kids will allow me to finish it. But, um, and it's going to be a pretty comprehensive course on how to register your own trademark. And again, it's because it's so much more than just like filling out an application, people think I'm gonna go on the USPTO website, I'm gonna fill out an application. But it's what I like to call a deceptively simple application because on its face, it looks super easy. But if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, like you're just you're gonna be out. I mean, it's $250 minimum per class to register a trademark, okay? So you at a minimum, at a minimum, you're out to under $50. Because that that is not refundable to you just because you screwed it up. And that's at a minimum, for most people it's going to cost a lot more. So I really want to have this resource for people because people are always asking me questions, and I obviously I can't answer them unless they engage me as an attorney, even though I really want to. And I know that some of them can't afford it. So I want to put this out for them so that they're sort of again, they have that information. They know what they're doing. It's going to is it as good as hiring me? No, but it's going to give them a nice little leg up from just trying to DIY it. We're going to those you know $45 will register your trademark websites which will not register your web. it's like having a contract is better than not having a contract. Is it as good as I heard you know, but it's a start but it's exactly I mean don't download it from the internet but if you're gonna buy at least like some kind of attorney template, it's better than nothing for sure.

Russ Harlow  39:17

So Vicki, where can people find you?

Vicki Smolyar  39:21

Yes, so I am on Instagram and you can find me at trademark dot attorney dot Viki vi CK why I am on Instagram all the time. They can find me on LinkedIn. It's slash vi CK y smolyar s moly AR and their companion my website and that is www dot smolyar law.com and everything is on there too. So follow the links. Social media and like Dana said all the free stuff.

Russ Harlow  39:53

I bet you it's copyrighted to Ricky thank you for stopping by the pie I'd cast you know, and to our listeners, I don't want Jeff to mortgage your house because you didn't talk to an attorney. So, here's a great opportunity to connect. Thanks for coming by. Thank our listeners for being here. I want you to remember to find us in all the places that it's just business podcast. You know, send us an email, leave us a review, let us know how we're doing. We really love those. And remember, it's not personal. It's just business.